your wonderful new president, di dilma youseff. i've come here to share some ideas because i want to, i want to speak of the values that we share, the hopes that we have in common. and the difference that we can make together. when you think about it, the journeys of the united states of america and brazil began in similar ways. our lands are rich with god's creation. home to ancient and indigenous peoples. from overseas, the americas were discovered by men who sought a new world. and settled buy pioneers who pushed westward. we became colonies claimed by distant crowns, but soon

declared our independence. we then welcomed waves of immigrants to our shores. and eventually after a long struggle, we cleansed the stain of slavery from our land. the united states was the first nation to recognize brazil's independence. and set up a diplomatic outpost in this country. the first head of state to visit the united states was the leader of brazil done pedro ii. in the second world war, our brave men and women fought side by side for freedom. and after the war, both of our nations struggled to achieve the full blessings of liberty. on the streets of the united states, men and women marched and bled and some died. so that every citizen could enjoy the same freedoms and opportunities. no matter what you look like, no matter where you came from. in brazil, you fought against

two decades of dictatorships. for the same right to be heard. the right to be free. from fear. free from want. and yet, for years, democracy and development were slow to take hold and millions suffered as a result. but i come here today because those days have passed. brazil today is a flourishing democracy. a place where people are free to speak their mind and choose their leaders. where poor kid from an area can rise from the floors of a copper factory to the highest office in brazil. and over the last decade, the progress made by the brazilian people has inspired the world. more than half of this nation is now considered middle class. millions have been lifted from poverty. for the first time hope is returning to places where fear

had long prevailed. i saw this today. when i visited the city of god. [ applause ] it isn't just the new security efforts and social programs and i want to congratulate the mayor and the governor for the excellent work that they're doing -- [ applause ] but it's also a change in attitudes. as one young resident said, people have to look at favelas, not with pity, but as a source of presidents and lawyers and doctors, artists and people with solutions. [ applause ] with each passing day, brazil is a country with more solutions.

and the global community you've gone from relying on the help of other nations to now helping fight poverty and disease wherever they exist. you play an important role in the global institutions that protect our common security and promote our common prosperity. and you will welcome the world to your shores when the world cup and the olympic games come to rio de janeiro. [ applause ] now you may be aware that this city was not my first choice for the summer olympics. but -- if the games could not be held in chicago, then there's no place i would rather see them than right here in rio. and i intend to come back in 2016 to watch what happens.

[ applause ] for so long, brazil was a nation brimming with potential, but held back by politics. both at home and abroad. for so long, you were called a country of the future, told po wait for a better day, that was always just around the corner. mios amigos, that day has finally come. and this is a country of the future no more. the people of brazil should know that the future has arrived. it is here now. it is time to seize it. [ applause ] our countries have not always agreed on everything. and just like many nations. we're going to have our differences of opinion going forward. but i'm here to tell you that the american people don't just recognize brazil's success, we

root for brazil's success. as you confront the many challenges you still face at home, as well as abroad. let us stand together. not as senior and junior partners, but as equal partners. joined in a spirit of mutual interest and mutual respect. committed to the progress that i know we can make together. i'm confident that we can do it. together we can advance our common prosperity. as two of the world's largest economies, we work side by side during the financial crisis to restore growth and confidence. and to keep our economies growing, we know what's necessary in both of our nations. we need a skilled, educated workforce, which is why american and brazilian companies have pledged to help increase student exchanges between our two nations. we need a commitment to

innovation. which is why we've agreed to expand cooperation between our scientists, researchers and engineers. we need world-class infrastructure which is why american companies want to help you build and prepare this city for olympic success. a global economy, the united states and brazil should expand trade. expand investment. so that we create new jobs and new opportunities in both of our nations. and that's why we're working to break down barriers to doing business. that's why we're building closer relationships between our workers and our entrepreneurs. together we can also promote energy security and protect our beautiful planet. as two nations that are committed to greener economies, we know that the ultimate

solution to our energy challenges lies in clean and renewable power. that's why half of the vehicles in this country can run on biofuels. and most of your electricity comes from hydro power. that's also why in the united states, we've jump-started a new clean energy industry. that's why the united states and brazil are creating new energy partnership, to share technologies, create new jobs, and leave our children a world that is cleaner and safer than we found it. together our two nations can help defend our citizens' security. we're working together to stop narco trafficking that has destroyed too many lives in this hemisphere. a world without nuclear weapons, we're working toot to enhance

nuclear security across our hemisphere. from africa to haiti we are working side by side to combat the hunger and corruption that can rot a society and rob human beings of dignity and opportunity. and as two countries that have been greatly enriched by our african heritage, it's absolutely vital that we are working with the continent of africa to help lift it up. that is something that we should be committed to doing, together. >> today, we're both also delivering assistance and support to the japanese people. at their greatest hour of need. the ties that bind our nations together are strong.

you are home to the largest japanese population outside of japan. in the united states, we forged an alliance of more than 60 years. the people of of japan are some of our closest friends. and we will pray with them, stand with them and rebuild with them until this crisis has passed. [ applause ] in these and other efforts to promote peace and prosperity throughout the world, the you state and brazil are partners, not just because we share history, not just because we're in the same hemisphere. not just because we share ties of commerce and culture. but also because we share certain enduring values and ideals. we both believe in the power and promise of democracy. we believe that no other form of government is more effective at promoting growth and prosperity

that reaches every human being, not just some, but all. and those who argue otherwise, those who argue that democracy stands in the way of economic progress, they must contend with the example of brazil. the millions in this country who have climbed from poverty into the middle class, they did not do so in a closed economy controlled by the state. you're prospering as a free people. with open markets and a government that answers to its citizens. you're proving that the goal of social justice and social inclusion can be best achieved through freedom. that democracy is the greatest partner of human progress. [ applause ] we also believe that in nations

as big and diverse as ours, shaped by generations of immigrants, from every race and faith and background, democracy offers the best hope that every citizen is treated with dignity. and respect. and that we can resolve our differences peacefully. that we find strength in our diversity. we know that experience in the united states. we know how important it is to be able to work together. even when we often disagree. i understand that our chosen form of government can be slow and messy. we understand that democracy must be constantly strengthened and perfected over time. we know that different nations take different paths to realize the promise of democracy.

and we understand that no one nation should impose its will on another. but we also know that there are certain aspirations shared by every human being. we all seek to be free. we all seek to be heard. we all yearn do live without fear or discrimination. we all yearn to choose how we are governed. and we all want to shape our own destiny. these are not american ideals or practice stillian ideals. these are not western ideals. these are universal rights and we must support them everywhere. [ applause ] today we are seeing the struggle for the rights unfold across the middle east and north africa. we've seen a revolution born out

of a yearning for basic human dignity in tunisia. we've seen peaceful protesters pour into tahrir square, men and women, young and old, christian and muslim. we've seen the people of libya take a courageous stand against a regime determined to brutalize its own citizens. across the region, we've seen young people rise up. a new generation, demanding the right to determine their own future. -- all right. sorry about that, lost that signal, we'll try to restore it but -- >> just as he was -- >> it sounds like we have it again. >> nations who have struggled over many generations to perfect our own democracies. the united states and brazil know that the future of the arab world will be determined by its people.

no one can say for certain how the change will end. but i know for certain that change is nothing we should fear. when people insist that the currents of history are on the move, the burdens of the past can be washed away. when men and women peacefully claim their human rights, our own common humanity is enhanced. wherever the light of freedom is lit, the world becomes a brighter place. that is the example of brazil. [ applause ] that is the example of brazil. >> all right we're going to leave the president there in brazil and i'm joined right now of michael holmes of cnn international as we reach our audience around the world in the u.s. and beyond. now we understand that while the president is speaking, he was just touching on what this revolution that may have been unfolding in various parts of the middle east, including that of libya, we're actually going to go to libya right now.

because our international correspondent, nic robertson is there. >> nic, if you've got us there. i'm hearing that you're seeing some action there. what news do you have? >> we're hearing heavy anti-aircraft gunfire as we heard last night and seeing tracer rounds fly up into the sky. this started about two or three minutes ago. these heavy anti-aircraft fire coming from a similar position that it was coming up from last night. when we heard missiles crash into the city. and as a consequence of that, we saw anti-aircraft gunfire fired up. we're seeing those then tracers, in the last couple of minutes. fly up here in the heavy anti-aircraft gunfire. it's gone quiet at the moment. the guns have stopped shooting at the moment. we can hear some smaller guns firing at this time. there it goes again. more tracer fire shooting up into the sky. coming from at least a couple of different weapons that appears.

there's a couple of different streams going up into the sky as i told you here. >> let's just listen, nic. it appears to have stopped. could you hear it clearly in the background. you were saying anti-aircraft, so it's outgoing. is there any indication of incoming? >> i don't know if you can hear that. but that was the, that was the gun fire going up into the sky. you're looking at, you're looking at the skyline now. the gun fire, tracer rounds were flying up over those trees, there they go again. >> nic, i was asking you if there's any indication that you've seen of incoming fire to be the cause of that outgoing? >> i'm not aware of it at the moment. we haven't heard any of those

sort of heavy crashing bangs that we heard last night associated with the incoming missile. the heavy anti-aircraft gun fire we're seeing now was fired and appeared to be triggered by an attack last night. perhaps on the anti-aircraft gun position that's firing now. they believe there is as an attack coming. and that's why they're firing at this time. but we haven't heard any loud explosions. the explosions last night were towards the east of the city. they seem to sort of of have been two separate attacks within the space of about five minutes in the city. two or three missiles falling east of the city at a military air base along the coastline in the east of the city. with me now, we can continue to hear the heavy gun fire going off here.

>> at this stage, michael, it's not clear to us what is exactly being targeted at the moment. but the gunfire is still going off. >> yeah. nic, any sign of anything from the government in the last hour or more? >> there's no response to this particular incident that we're witnessing right now from the government. we were expecting to hear from an army spokesman and a foreign ministry spokesman. shortly. but at the moment, that press conference that was scheduled for half an hour ago, hasn't begun. it certainly appears, the way that these anti-aircraft guns

are being fired into the sky right now, it certainly appears that this anti-aircraft battery, and there appears to be perhaps two of them in that direction we're looking, seem to think that they may come under attack. they seem to think there's something they need to shoot at in the sky right now, michael. >> nic, i'm wondering if you've been able to ascertain exactly what sort of targets there would be around the capital itself. obviously the anti-aircraft in place have been the targets of the initial barrage of missiles that came in from the sea. and of some of the aircraft runs by the coalition. tripoli itself well defended as we know along the coast there near tripoli. >> reporter: there's a number of locations around the city that are well defended. certainly around the palace where we believe moammar gadhafi is reported to live there are defenses there. but and there are defenses around the military bases.

the military airfield. but in general, there are not many heavy anti-aircraft guns or weapons or even much military presence deployed in and around the city. certainly there are checkpoints with ak-47s, but not a heavy military presence that they might have. >> nic, as we go forward here, what is your sense around the city? i know it's been very difficult and you've mentioned this to us before, about the difficulty of getting any real access to real people, if you like. is there any way you've been able to ascertain what the mood there is like, as opposed to where benghazi, which is massively anti-gadhafi. are you getting any kind of clue from contacts? >> reporter: well the people that we've been able to talk to so far tell thaus people are not necessarily supporters of the government. and they tell us of their concerns about the situation.

they're concerned because they're not sure what's going to come next. their families are scared. their children are scared. and this gives them a great cause for concern. there are obviously a lot of people behind the government, they're telling us that this is going to strengthsen moammar gadhafi's leadership that people are falling in behind him. but i think the overall feeling we get, is that this is not something that countries have experienced. they haven't witnessed, many in the city haven't witnessed these type of aerial attacks and the heavy anti-aircraft gunfire firing up like this, in anything other than celebratory gunfire. so this is uncharted territory and people are very nervous about this it's going to cause a great deal of concern in the city, with the anti-aircraft gun fire going up tonight. even if people don't know why it's being shot or have not

heard any loud explosion. they're going to be very concerned. >> and obviously, uncharted territory as well, in terms of the no fly zone and its prosecution. as it unfolds, too. is it to protect civilians or is it to support a revolt? obviously a lot of questions yet to be answered on that as well. in terms of what happens here. >> reporter: certainly a lot of questions. when one looks at the way the army of moammar gadhafi, military has lined up just outside benghazi, during the air strike. we've heard various that the army pulled back westward. just now inside the town a few days ago. the army was lined up -- which part of the army -- [ gun fire ] [ inaudible ] >> none of this, none of this is

clear. but the speeches of moammar gadhafi have been about an invader invasion from the country. we've heard from the arab league concerning about the air strikes. in libya have given force by moammar gadhafi to feel that he can get back the support that he has been lacking over the past two or three weeks or so, since this all began. and of course, the heavy anti-aircraft gunfire right now. perhaps the impression that the weapons are shooting into the air. giving me the impression that they are under attack. we just don't know. anti-aircraft gun fire still goes on at the moment. >> a good point. perhaps it's a show for the people. we don't know at the moment. in the broader picture, some

analysis, if gadhafi were to stop in place, no gun fire new york city anti-aircraft new york city artillery, just stop, where does that leave the coalition? does the coalition presumably would have no reason to continue the no fly zone or at least the action. you've got a stalemate, don't you? >> potentially, we've heard about the need to bring in humanitarian aid. certainly in this part of the country, benghazi, humanitarian aid continues to be what was needed. making sure humanitarian aid. the real test for the international community is going to be are the civilian population safe. are they being treated well. are people, are the people's human rights being respected? and do they have freedom of speech. and freedom to voice their either anger at the government or their opposition or concern about the government.

but it's difficult to see how the international community would get admonished for that would be able to set thresholds for that, in the part of the country that is certainly controlled by the government. so one can see everybody trying to sort of extend the no-fly zone into meeting u.n. security council resolution. it's also calls for dialogue. and as we're watching, hearing the heavy anti-aircraft gun fire from another location. >> so, nic, fredricka here real quick. you mentioned, i'm restating it for people just now beginning to join us, you're in tripoli where we're hearing sounds and seeing sights of the anti-aircraft gun fire. you talked earlier about generally there isn't a heavy military presence right there in tripoli. however, there would be defenses around the palace where presumably gadhafi would be.

and there are some military bases. so give us an idea of the proximity of where you are to any of those locations that you mentioned. there would be heavy military defenses or at least a presence. [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] >> and if nic, if you could reposition yourself one more time because we're losing your audio. >> we're about a mile, about kilometer and a half away from one of the presidential -- [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] >> we've almost lost your audio completely -- >> reporter: spent some of his time in tripoli. and we're probably about four or five miles away from the military air bases here on the east of the city, fredricka.

>> all right. that does give us kind of a vantage point about where you are. now we're seeing some other images here with a bit more light. i don't know if nick, you're able to kind of describe what we're seeing right there. for a second it looked like we saw some vehicles, maybe even some military vehicles being lit up there on the ground. ? these pictures coming from "reuters" news agency. nic, it's interesting the sustained -- go ahead. >> reporter: these pictures we're looking at here, we're pointing in one direction towards the palace area. i was describing, the palace area of moammar gadhafi uses, about a mile away and the other pictures are pointing about 180 degrees in the opposite direction. they're pointing more towards the center of the city and would perhaps, if there was any explosions on the horizon, on

probably what would be object the righthand side of the picture you're looking at, might be able to pick up an explosion if there were one. or an attack on the military air bases. sort of on the eastern edges of tripoli. so we're looking at these two different cameras, the one you're looking at now looking more towards the center of the city, east of the city towards the military air base, some four or five miles away. and the camera we were looking at pointing towards the palace area about a mile away from us. >> so interesting, too, nic on the "reuters" imagery we were just seeing. we saw the one structure. you could also see some lights, vehicles that were driving about presumably it just looked like going about their business on a very, on relatively busy evening on this the street there. but i wonder if that helps bring us to the behavior of the citizens there in tripoli over the past 24 hours since these

strikes have been under way. throughout various parts of libya. have people been reticent, been reluctant to get out of their homes because of this kind of uncertainty? or are they trying to go about their daily lives at least in the city of tripoli? >> reporter: well certainly there's been less traffic than you would normally expect to see on a sunday here. but by no means have the roads been deserted. 24 hours ago on the streets here before any missiles hit close to tripoli, there was sort of a party atmosphere. fireworks were being fired. people were rallying to the palace. to sort of show support for moammar gadhafi, his loyalists were rallying there. after the first round of missile strikes had occurred, people have very much thinned out and there was security on the street and there was about midnight local time.

plenty of traffic out and about on the streets and this afternoon it's been a very sunny warm day here. and the city has not had any attacks during the day. and it would seem that people had felt they could at least get out and about. obviously people have been buying provisions, concerned about what's happening. but we have heard from people that are very concerned about the strikes that have come close to their neighborhood, they're worried about if this is going to impact on them. they haven't been through this. it sounds perhaps it's worth repeating, really, that obviously no one here really knows what to expect at this time. what to expect from their government, what to expect from the international community. and it's that fear of the unknown. that really makes people the most concerned. it's a city of two million people. people with families, obviously. and some of these people have expressed their concerns for us. even people opposed to this government expressed their fears

and concerns to us. >> you mentioned the palace area. we've got pictures coming in now of gadhafi supporters we're told, demonstrating, this appearing presumably on state television, libyan state tv indeed. on the right the of the screen, not a very big crowd. on the left of the screen, not sure if the pictures are coming there live or not there have been some remarkably small gatherings there. what's your intel there, nic? >> well we certainly know that there's been a rally in green square in the center of tripoli. which just the picture on the lefthand side of your screen. and oftentimes, we'll see the rallies shot fairly close up. it gives an impression of a lot of people being there. when in actual time, there are not so many people there. that's more what you're seeing on the righthand side of the

screen. that on the righthand side of the screen, you're looking at people that inside moammar gadhafi's palace compound. the one about a mile away from here. the building behind them is the building that the united states bombed in 1986 after u.s. servicemen were killed by a terrorist bomb in germany. and on the left it does appear to be green square. it's not clear to us if these are live pictures. but the government here has gone to a lot of pains in the past few weeks to put up live pictures to try to sort of continually verify in some way that they're live. but it's impossible for us to know just at the moment. but it's certainly the image, the leadership here wants, the country to see, wants the world to see. i get the impression with the length of time, we've heard the anti-aircraft gun fire, we haven't heard any explosions and

the gun fire has been sustained now over quite a period. intimately, michael. >> you raise an interesting point, too, nic, whether such sustained gun fire outgoing like that, could have been more for show for the people. than as a result of any direct attack. and you're quite right, the crowd on the righthand side of the screen there from inside the palace, remarkably small. and also perhaps a political message going out that the civilians in the palace area, nic. >> reporter: well this is very much the message that the government was wanting to show yesterday. the people were described as protecting the palace here in the one instance. and the main international airport in another instance in moammar gadhafi's home city along the coast, about 350 kilometers east of here. there was also a small gathering of that large international

airport there as well. so yes, this is to show the international community that if you try to bomb the locations, there are civilians here. and the government would say these people are here as volunteers. and certainly the people we saw yet streaming in and out of the palace compound, they didn't appear tobac be coerced. obviously a population of two million in the city, the thousand or so we saw in quite a tiny handful when you add in the other several thousands on the streets. >> we'll stay in touch as this continues to develop in tripoli. >> one has to wonder whether those images are a reflection of people who are indeed loyal to gadhafi. or if this is a result of a form of intimidation. whether people feel they have to be largely in public support of gadhafi.

>> or whether as if nic was pointing out, almost a human shield, saying there are civilians right outside my palace, just in case you're thinking of anything. >> we're going to move a few hundred miles east to the city of benghazi, along the mediterranean coast. that's where why find our arwa damon. not incredibly quiet in the city of tripoli. last we checked with you it was quiet in benghazi. set the scene on what's taking place there right now. >> reporter: fredricka, it still is pretty quiet here. although the city remains tense. we've seen an increase in checkpoints all of the shops here by and large are remaining closed following the assault we saw of gadhafi's troops taking place yesterday. people still very much on edge, although greatly reassured by the presence of the air jets we've been hearing overhead. very grateful that the no fly zone is finally being enforced.

a short distance outside of the benghazi, 20 miles, 30 kilometers out is an area where gadhafi's military had been massing once again. eye witnesses say for another attack. they were pounded by foreign fighter jets. for a distance that stretched for a good few kilometers. we could see the debris, the burnt-out military vehicles. ranging from suvs being used, to armored personnel carriers. tanks with their turrets blown off and four or five charred bodies belong doing the gadhafi forces, eye witnesses were telling us. people celebrating on top of many of these vehicles, expressing their gratitude to the international community for bringing gadhafi's military machine to a halt. to give you an idea, during the assault by gadhafi's forces on

benghazi, medical forces say at least 95 people were killed. if the fighter jets had not managed to bring the military machine to a halt, they say they would have seen more bloodshed, possibly a bigger massacre taking place, fredricka. >> arwa damon, thanks so much, appreciate that from benghazi. when we come back we'll have our continuing coverage of all that's take place in libbia and we'll also be joined by little rock, arkansas, from general wesley clark. and we'll pop in on cairo as well. a lot to cover. castrol syntec has been reformulated for better performance under the hood. so we gave it a new name. castrol edge with syntec power technology. new name. better formula. it's more than just oil. it's liquid engineering. everyone has someone to go heart healthy for.

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back to our continuing coverage of the air strikes taking place in libya. in cairo, the arab league has had an emergency meeting today. our reza sayal is in cairo. initially conflicting messages about what was coming out of the arab league. not in support of the no fly zone then suddenly back-pedalling and saying we're going to take our time and meet and discuss. no definitive conclusion. where do they stand right now? fred it took a while for the

arab league to clarify itself. it finally has clarified itself and i think the clarification is making the coalition behind operation odyssey dawn breathe a little easier tonight. with a very brief statement, the arab league has avoided what could have been a major setback for the operation, for the no fly zone essentially saying forget about the reports you heard earlier. we do support the no fly zone and let's move forward now with protecting the innocent civilians of libya. earlier today of course, several news agencies reported that the arab league headed by secretary-general mousa was critical of what they've seen in the initial 24 hours of the no fly zone, saying it was much to aggressive. saying -- they only wanted to no fly. the reports quoted mr. amr amre moussa as saying what's -- [ inaudible ] >> we're having a difficult time with our signal there, if we're able to reestablish it we'll try to resume our conversation with

reza sayah coming out of cairo. >> we've got general wesley clark joining us for analysis on what's going on in libya. general, good to see you. >> good to see you. >> i was talking to nic robertson before about the potential outcomes here as anti-aircraft fire was being fired into the air over tripoli and no sign of anything incoming to actually fire at. i'm curious about what your analysis would be if moammar gadhafi just decided to stop. just decided to not do anything. don't pull any triggers. what happens? don't you have a stalemate? a divided country? >> well this has always been the dilemma faced by those who are the proponents of the no fly zone. that is to say it might be effective, but it might not really put enough pressure on the ground to make a difference. now had it been implemented a few days earlier, maybe more of the opposition could have been protected in different cities. but it seems that we're really protecting the opposition just

in the area around benghazi. so be it. now this is the time in which the diplomatic forces must be brought to bear. principally, the arab league and i was delighted to hear the report thaw just gave us on the arab league support for the no fly zone. because it's that kind of pressure that's going to be absolutely essential. to get the right outcome, the coalition must not allow gadhafi to define this as a battle of called crusaders against the islamic world. nor must he be permitted to show a lot of, and claim a lot of civilian casualties. because you can be sure those civilian casualties haven't happied. there's no guarantee that one missile may not have gone astray. one civilian car may have been driving by a government building when it was hit. but the tomahawk missiles are extremely accurate. so what has to happen now is sustained political pressure on gadhafi to fold.

>> you're right about the civilian casualties. the gadhafi regime claiming it was women, children and clerics who had been killed. which is a pretty wild accusation. what about your analysis of what happens with the rebels. surely the impetus is on them to take advantage to move. and if they do move, does the know fly zone protect them from the gadhafi forces as they move. then you're involved with the revolution. >> as i read for the u.n. security council resolution, it does call for a cease-fire. it's one thing to give arms and hope these people can defend themselves. it's another thing to think they could launch real offensive operations. with the absence of revolt in gadhafi's forces. i think it's doubtful and if they do it it will become a real murky issue. one thing i would say about gadhafi and the stalemate, there's a whole legal channel that should be opened up. the impetus behind this was his

brutality, his excessive use of force against civilians. that's a war crime and under the international war crimes court, charges could be brought and he could be charged, and indicted, he should be. >> he doesn't care, does he, general? >> no, but it does solidify international opinion against him. the basis of all this has to be legal. it's what the british prime minister cameron said yesterday. you know, the united states, britain, france, we are nations of international law. we're not might makes right. it was just might makes right, we would have taken out gadhafi a long time ago, it's about international law. >> okay. let's say that happens and the pressure say plied and is successful. post gadhafi, is almost as frightening is it not. in a way. it's an extremely tribalistic country. the military is weak in itself. do you see civil war as a post-gadhafi future? >> no one knows at this stage.

there is a council, they've been recognized by france, there are former members of the royal family of libya who are living abroad. and some are involved in this movement. there are tribes there, various people who will claim some stake for the government and hopefully at this very moment, nongovernmental organizations and governmental organizations from the islamic world and from the west are sorting this out and trying to help them cobble together the kind of arrangements that could transition libya to a democratic government. >> do you see, and i'm not trying to make a comparison here. but you see the world acting the coalition acting in this situation because gadhafi was firing on his own people. in yemen, in bahrain, you see regimes firing on their own people. what is the difficult, difficul diplomatic balance that needs to be watched when it comes to other countries in the region that are experiencing their own upheaval? >> i think it's a mistake to try to demand that foreign policy

try to be consistent. yemen, the governments of yemen and the governments of bahrain, they have not been terrorist governments. they've not sent terrorist agents to blow up airplanes in the air as gadhafi did. gadhafi has a long track record of being out of control and although he was rehabilitated by the united states and britain after he gave up his nuclear pretensions in the last five or six years, still, gadhafi is gadhafi and people understand that. the other countries are struggling in their own way to come to terms with the demands of their citizenry. they're facing also some other elements that are mixed up in those demands, that are troublesome and difficult. and what we would hope is that they'll use minimum violence and not use force against their own people. but there's been nothing they've done comparable to what gadhafi has done. let's be very clear. >> not drawing parallel there is. it must be something that's running through the minds of diplomats when they see governments firing on people.

your point is of course valid. i'm curious, one other thing i wanted to ask you about was al qaeda. particularly al qaeda in the islamic magreb. they must be hating this. because what they're taking in libya is action being taken against a leader that they don't like and there is arab involvement. they want to see gadhafi gone as much as anyone. but not like this, not with other arab countries being part of the mix, do they? they want to see a jihadi-led overthrow. >> well, as best as we can determine, the so-called arab spring caught al qaeda worldwide offguard. they hadn't expected this. and in so far as it results in regime changes and moderations and the development of more democratic institutions, it completely undercuts al qaeda's thesis that the only way to provide dignity and respect in the islamic world is through force against the west. but in this particular case of

libya, we don't really know who's there. there were a lot of people from libya who went to afghanistan and found, and went and fought in iraq as well against the american forces. a lot of the people probably didn't come back. but who knows who is there and what their motivations are. until all of this is sorted out, until there's enough stability to really assess what the feelings are among the populace, other than relief at having escaped an assault by gadhafi we're not going to have a clear understanding of what we're dealing with. >> in going back to libya, do you see arming the rebels as part of the mandate there? is it a good idea, anyway? >> at this point, i would be inclined against it. they've already got a lot of weapons, i'd like to see the organization, i'd like to see it slowed down. i would like to see a structure put up and do some training and set some organization and look at the defense of benghazi again. but with a no fly zone imposed,

i would be very surprised if there's anything gadhafi could do militarily against benghazi, unless tonight, he tries to infiltrate under the cover of darkness. apparently the column of vehicles was moving just before dawn today, and it was detected and struck. and that's an indication that it's not going to be that easy and in open terrain to get forces from gadhafi's side into benghazi. given that, we should concentrate on the diplomatic piece. let the coalition handle the no fly zone. let the military pressure stabilize and then bring the diplomatic leverage to bear and the international legal pressure to bear to protect civilians in the area and then let's see what happens to gadhafi. >> general wesley clark. always good to get your analysis, thanks so much. europe's military role in the libyan operation, what is it? and what will many of the other nations as part of the

coalition, what's their point of view on whether moammar gadhafi should stay or go?

military contribution to the operation ongoing in libya of course significant. let's bring in max faster who is live at 10 downing street in london. max gathering around the table

as we understand it. it's an update on what's going on in libya as opposed to another call to action but of course we'll bring you details on a as it comes through. britain of course, with france leading on this in europe. we've also heard that denmark, norway, italy, spain, all committing assets to this military operation. in libya. all the political leaders in those countries are being very clear. that they are operating within the u.n. mandate. as a political mission, that for them as well as a military mission, this for them. because for example, william hague, the foreign minister of the united kingdom making it very clear they're not going to go beyond the u.n. mandate or target moammar gadhafi for example. >> obviously we want him to go. and almost the whole world wants him to go. it's not possible to see a viable future for libya with colonel gadhafi still there. but the united nations resolution does not authorize us to insure that.

it authorizes us to protect the civilian population, to have a no fly zone. to enforce an arms em bbargo an then it's up to the people of libya to decide their own future. >> a military operation and a political operation. to keep support in the big military operation, michael. >> what sort of level of support are we talking about a war or a conflict, a no fly zone at the moment. what sort of support is there given everything else that europe is involved in? >> we haven't gotten the public surveys yet because the operation is so fresh. but the feeling is as long as ministers can give the impression this is an international operation, not a european/u.s. operation, a western operation, then they will retain support. for example, we had the french defense ministry spokesman coming out and saying this today. expressing that there is international support. particularly from arab countries.

>> qatar has decided to make four planes available in the area to participate in the operation. this illustrates the support international support to protect the civilian population. >> after the meeting, the next meet mission for the british government will be a debate in parliament. david cameron expected to get overwhelming support from members of parliament in this military operation. so certainly as far as the uk is concerned, there is support. >> max and fredricka here. the u.s. joint chiefs of staff chairman said the operation may ultimately need arpgs but the u.s. would not commit to provides the arms. are any of the european members or even great britain articulating whether they would consider doing that? >> they're not articulating that. but on friday i was speaking to a former u.n. commander who is a now a conservative member of

parliament. and he is certainly putting pressure on david cameron to arm the rebels, he wants to go in very hard. he wants has support from certain back ventures in london. it's coalition government and not all back benchers support that. there is pressure for him to at least think about it. >> max foster, thanks so much. we're going to have much more of our coverage taking place in libya and then there's the other calamity that's been taking place across the globe in japan. we'll update you as well on all that's taking place there. they had another serious aftershock today. >> magnitude 6, i think. an update after this. we're america's natural gas. and here's what we did today in homes all across america: we created the electricity that powered the alarm clocks and brewed the coffee. we heated the bathwater and gave kelly a cleaner ride to school. cooked the cube steaks and steamed the veggies. entertained dad, and mom, and a neighbor or two.

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